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  #16  
Old 03.05.09, 7:13 AM
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The JCM 800 sounds better than the JVM and JCM 2000 at low and high volumes. But if you need the clean tone get the DSL. If you need a clean tone and lead tone get a TSL. The JVM sounds the worst of all of them, still a great sounding amp, but not as great sounding as the others.

I have owned all of these amps at one point and I miss the JCM 800 the most but had to get rid of it because I needed a good clean tone and lead on top of the rhythm. The 800 for me only did one tone at a time.

I loved the JVM but you will never get it to sound like a JCM 800 no matter what you do to it (unless you had it modded or something). But the JVM is the most versital and can be played at extremely low volumes since it has a ton of gain on tap.

As for cranking the amps loud, you will get the best tone with a tube amp extremely loud. That doesn't mean you don't get a good tone at quiet volumes, but you will never get that signature sound that all the great guitar albums have without really cranking the amp.

Either way its all a matter of taste. If you find the tone your looking for by doing it the opposite of what everyone says then I say go for it!
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  #17  
Old 03.05.09, 7:27 AM
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its been said already but the answer to your dilemma is a low wattage tube amp: 30 watts or less
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  #18  
Old 03.05.09, 8:18 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by republic View Post
its been said already but the answer to your dilemma is a low wattage tube amp: 30 watts or less

Will this still be loud enough for playing in a band taaking over drums ect.

Becuse at the moment i have a 45 Watt Cab witch is not loud enough.

ta
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  #19  
Old 03.05.09, 8:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blackz View Post
Will this still be loud enough for playing in a band taaking over drums ect.

Becuse at the moment i have a 45 Watt Cab witch is not loud enough.

ta
I you have a 30 watt tube amp it would be extremely loud. But a 30 watt solid state won't. Tubes are a ton louder and 30 watts would be plenty to play over drums. But before you buy one crank it in the store and see for yourself to make sure it is loud enough for you.
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  #20  
Old 03.05.09, 10:13 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blackz View Post
Thanks guys, As i am going to be playing live i think im going to go for the DSL50 or 100 JCM 2000, the only thing im worried about is the quality from what iv heard Tube amps only sound at there best when there high volume. Im going to be using it at low volume and at high.

Any words of advice?

ta.
When people say "tube amps sound best at high volumes", they are referring to the overdrive tone. That's because at high volumes, the power tubes are being pushed hard so that the amp overdrives naturally. If you DO get the JCM 2000, you won't have to worry about having to crank the amp because that amp has plenty of pre-amp gain so it can sound saturated at any volume. It WILL sound really nice at high volumes but it will sound pretty good at low volumes too. Also, if you are gonna be using clean tones a lot, you wouldn't want your amp to overdrive too soon.

Here's what you need to ask yourself: Are you planning on playing at bars or larger venues? If bars, then go with a lower wattage combo. If venues, then the head. If you want to start out at bars and eventually move up to venues, then IMO the head would be good because the JCM 2000 can sound good at low volumes.

What is your playing style? And does the majority of your playing use clean or overdrive? If you use clean more, then go with the 100 watt model. If you use overdrive most of the time, then go with the 50 watt model (possibly even the combo if it has a good overdrive tone).

And lastly, do you mind lifting heavy stuff? The head and cab is a lot to move around and WILL get tiring. If you live in a 10-story apartment, you wouldn't want to carry your half stack up and down every time.

And just to emphasize, stay away from the JCM 2000 TSL. Only go for the DSL.
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  #21  
Old 03.05.09, 10:23 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blackz View Post
Thanks guys, As i am going to be playing live i think im going to go for the DSL50 or 100 JCM 2000, the only thing im worried about is the quality from what iv heard Tube amps only sound at there best when there high volume. Im going to be using it at low volume and at high.

Any words of advice?

ta.
Get two amps.
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  #22  
Old 03.05.09, 10:36 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cosmiqphuz View Post

And just to emphasize, stay away from the JCM 2000 TSL. Only go for the DSL.
I'm curious about your reasoning for staying away from the TSL. I like them both and have heard most people like the DSL better. I'm guessing it is because the DSL does have more gain than the TSL. But when the TSL is cranked it makes up for it.

I also like my leads to be louder. Most people feel that hitting a tube screamer is enough to make their leads cut through the mix. But in the band that I'm in I need my leads to be much louder than just the tiny extra of a boost pedal. Also, since boosting a dirty channel makes it more dirty instead of louder, having a third channel is a must. The TSL allows for this extra lead volume so I don't see how it is an amp to completely "stay away from". Maybe I'm missing the point everything else seems to be noticing? What am I missing that people seem to dislike about it?
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  #23  
Old 03.05.09, 10:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by steveo041 View Post
I'm curious about your reasoning for staying away from the TSL. I like them both and have heard most people like the DSL better. I'm guessing it is because the DSL does have more gain than the TSL. But when the TSL is cranked it makes up for it.

I also like my leads to be louder. Most people feel that hitting a tube screamer is enough to make their leads cut through the mix. But in the band that I'm in I need my leads to be much louder than just the tiny extra of a boost pedal. Also, since boosting a dirty channel makes it more dirty instead of louder, having a third channel is a must. The TSL allows for this extra lead volume so I don't see how it is an amp to completely "stay away from". Maybe I'm missing the point everything else seems to be noticing? What am I missing that people seem to dislike about it?
Well, from my experiences, to my ears the TSL sounded "fizzier" and thinner. Perhaps using high output humbuckers would help with this, but not everybody does.

Also, two of my good friends both had the TSL and they had so many problems with it. For some reason, the transformers in them tend to break down when playing loud. They both had problems with the channel switching. For example, when my friend wanted to switch from the clean channel to the high gain channel, it would either stay on the clean or even make no sound at all (as if the amp was off).

My one friend finally sold it and tried a DSL. He loved it so much more and to this day has not had any problems. I noticed that the overdrive was much thicker and less fizzy.

My friends could have gotten a bad batch, but I've read from other people that they've had the same problems. Maybe you're the lucky one and got one well put together.
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  #24  
Old 03.05.09, 11:32 PM
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Another answer to the volume problem is to get an attenuator. I just got a Weber MASS 100 a couple days ago to use with my amps. The point of the attenuator is essentially to lower the overall volume while keeping the signal saturation. And with a high wattage, high gain amp they are really helpful. I prefer the MASS to the THD Hotplate mostly because you don't have to buy one based on Ohm resitance. It can work with 2-16 ohms. Also, also it has more controls including a tone stack for the line out, a tone stack bypass, an attenuator bypass, a treble boost, its cheaper, and hand built in the USA.


I'm not sure if you will be changing from high to low volume over the course of the same gig. You could use a volume pedal or your guitar's volume to control that.
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  #25  
Old 03.06.09, 8:28 PM
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Blackz,

Let us know what you decide to do. And let us know how it works out for you.
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  #26  
Old 03.06.09, 10:00 PM
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you could try a volume pedal, but in my experience with my JMP 2203 (what ended up becoming the 800 series a few years later), even when i played dynamically and used my volume it was never a pristine pretty clean sound.

my dsl 50 i had was great, it just got muddy on the red channel and didnt really cut through at all (not a problem if you're more of a crunch guy), and i'd recommend the 100 if you need headroom, the 50 in a band setting gets eaten up pretty quickly.

and in regards to the cranking mention before, the way i judge a tube amp is if it sounds good at super low volumes. a good tube amp should, and when you crank it up and find it's sweet spot, then that = love.
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  #27  
Old 05.10.09, 12:16 PM
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Talking JVM does it all.

Loud or soft, my JVM410 does it all. When we practice we turn it down to save our ears and I get all the tones I have at medium or loud levels. The 4 channels are unequalled in flexiblity. The clean is great (not fender) but clear and chimy. The second channel is nice JCM800 tones ( each channel has 3 states). Channels 3 and 4 are pretty much indentical with a Metal scoop tone so you can set 3 for rhythm and 4 for leads. I also own a JCM2000 TSL. It has 3 channels, great tones but a little fizzy when dimed out on gain. I have worked on both units and can tell you from what I have seen and read, the JVM has an output section similar to the JCM800 so it does have the power output when needed and the master volume control when required. The other guitarist in our band plays out of a JCM2000 TSL head through a 1936 cab with V30s and his tone is great as well. I have a standard 1936 cab with G1250s or something like that. It sounds very good.
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  #28  
Old 05.11.09, 12:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cosmiqphuz View Post
Also, two of my good friends both had the TSL and they had so many problems with it.
...
They both had problems with the channel switching...
Yup, one of my friends has a TSL and the footswitch doesn't work.
I haven't played one, but I've seen a bunch of bands using them, and they've always been a bit thin in comparison to other bands' amps which have included Marshall Mode 4s and Line 6 Spider Valves, however they cut through better IMO.
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  #29  
Old 05.11.09, 7:35 PM
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Okay, here's the delimma, I can't say I've seen a lower wattage amp with some of that modern gain balls without 6L6 or EL34 tubes...... Most lower wattage amps use EL84s, which have that midrange hump.....

Stick to your practice amp at home, and your big amp for gigging would be my recommendation. Lowest wattage amp I've played and owned with some modern balls was a Marshall Artist 3203, at 30 watts, solid state preamp, this frankenstein had some balls, and could be found for mad cheap!

Just doesn't make sense though, for a tube amp to be played quietly, because from being moved, volume changes and such, you may find yourself replacing tubes more freaquently
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  #30  
Old 05.13.09, 11:28 PM
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My friend played a gig in another band to fill in for a friend. He was using a Fender Champ on 4-5 and the singer was complaining he was too loud. It wasn't mic'ed and could be heard over the drums relatively well. Just my two cents.
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