so.. my band is starting to record for a split and for our full length debut..
and I was sitting in the studio about an hour ago recording guitar tracks..
and well they don't sound so good with my JCM 800 head.
I'm running it ( a 50 watt single channel loaded with 6550's) through a Marshall JCM 800 4x12 Slant cab. I'm playing either a Gibson Les Paul Studio loaded with EMG 81 and 85 pickups or a Gibson SG Special Faded with a Dimarzio Super Distortion in the bridge. I'm boosting it with an Ibanez TS-9 modded to 808 specs.
It sounds.. undefined. there's simply not much clarity in my sound.
My co-guitarist is playing his LTD Viper-400 loaded with EMG 81 and 85 pickups through his Peavey 5150 2x12 combo. He has clarity and articulation.
When I practice with my band or play shows the Marshall sounds amazing, so why is it when I put it on record it sounds like this?
I'm thinking of recording my tracks with his amp, or with my Dual Rectifier, I need the clarity.
Any input is greatly appreciated.

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Rig

i don't know much about JCM800's but have you tried fiddling with your settings? maybe gain/bass?

How do you mic it?

I read an interview with some producer, and he said that most of the time when amps start sounding muddy or undefined, it's usually too much gain. You can get better high gain sounds by turning down the gain sometimes.

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i no longer play guitar.

If the gain suggestion isn't your solution, try and eq pedal. Most old marshalls, especially the 800's, have useless eqs. I used to have an old '81, the eq didn't do ****. Get an mxr 10-band, or check out a sniper'd ge-7. If that doesn't help, I would suggest trying different pickups (specifically in the lp studio). I've heard a lot of "heavy" bands that use mesas/marshalls, a lot of gain, and active pickups, and there is no definition. It's just undulating white noise as far as I'm concerned. I'm not trying to say your band is like this, but those combinations of things have historically yieled a lack of clarity.

.chris

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Before you alter your settings - play around with mic positions.

If your amp is sounding great at practice, then i wouldnt change any of your settings yet. Firstly i'd recommend setting up a few mic's on the cab - in different positions and blending those sounds. I'd definately recommend having one mic as an ambient mic about a 18" from the cab, tho still directed at a speaker.

If there's a lot of noise, and distortion where you cant really pick out the pitch of the notes you're playing i would start to back off on the gain. For myself its always worked out better to have my gain set lower on recordings than in the rehearsal room and on stage. Have you tried it without the TS-9 / 808?

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Proud member of the Dr Z., Divided by 13 & Fender families.

single channel jcm 800 50 watt (2204)?
what are your settings?
are you playing on the bridge position?

i had the exact same amp and here's the setting i used:

*gibson sg w/ dimarzio super dist in the bridge
*pres - off!
*bass - max
*mids - 12 o'clock
*treb - 9 o'clock
*master - varried
*pre - 3 o'clock <--> full

even with these settings i had plenty of bite and clarity. jcm 800 single channel amps tend to have a large amount of highend bite.

try backing off the gain on your ts-9 too. perhaps try an EQ as a boost instead of the ts-9. not only will you get a gain boost but you'll also get some sonic sculpting flexibility!

i've never found jcm 800s to be too muddy. it makes me question the recording techniques being used.

Listing your gear was a waste of time. Do you realize there's a whole other world of gear on the other side of that speaker cab?

If you're actually paying people to stick an SM57 in front of your cab and you think that your gear is the problem you've got a bit of learning to do. You've got ears to do listening and a mouth for criticism. If it sounds like ass on tape, tell the producer, tell the engineer, tell _somebody_.

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Seagull Artist Mosaic (acoustic)
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Traynor YCV40WR

If you're actually paying people to stick an SM57 in front of your cab and you think that your gear is the problem you've got a bit of learning to do. You've got ears to do listening and a mouth for criticism. If it sounds like ass on tape, tell the producer, tell the engineer, tell _somebody_.


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I couldn't agree more! Sadly, a great engineer can make a crap guitar with a Sears amp sound fantastic through mic usage and his outboard gear.

The gear you own if FAR supperior to anything Jimi Hendrix ever recorded with. In fact it's just as good as anything Randy Rhodes ever recorded with.

My only possible suggestion is something producers have always made me do....put on brand new strings, one size heavier than you usually play. If you like 10's put on new 11's. Your fingures will complain, but your tone will improve.

I have found that less gain sounds better when recording. Try that first. Also, what speakers are in the cabinet?

I read in GP that artists like Peter Framton will use up to 4 mics on one guitar track and mix them all together. Two SM57 types on the speakers and two condensors to capture the "in the room" tone. That would really be ideal as you can eq each track seperately or pan each track to a different part of the stereo field.

How are the mics set up?

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Mike
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Maybe the engineer or producer don't know what they're doing? I've recorded with my JCM800 many times with no problems at all on my own records and other people's.

If your producer or engineer cannot suggest a valid fix then they suck (sorry.) But I've never heard of this while doing a record or recording demos. Double that if you're happy with your sound in every other instance except on tape. They should be able to capture your sound without a problem at all.

Could also be that maybe your tubes are going? It could be as simple as you tweaking some knobs... turn the gain down all the way on your pedal and slowly add some to see if it takes care of your problem. Try a different pedal.. maybe change the battery in the pedal? maybe unplug the pedal if it's plugged in and try it with a fresh battery?

Try a clean boost instead of a distortion box. Should sound hot with that amp. If the studio can handle it.. try just cranking the hell out of the amp for it to give you that cranked Marshall sound. My amp was always recorded guitar to head.

Last, try mic'ing up a different speaker than the one that is mic'd. Maybe a speaker has started to go bad and you don't hear it over the other speakers/volume. Hm... Good luck...

Barfly.

PS: Maybe there is another amp at that studio that you can record with or maybe you can rent another amp just to get you sanely through the process untill there is less pressure on you?

Sounds like the engineer doesn't know how to pad the mic input correctly and you are overloading (burning) that board channel input. Also make sure he isn't squashing you with unecessay compression. Mic placement really matters. You may want to use more than one mic. Also a baffle or a dogo may help the imaging. If it sounds good to your ear during the track but sucks in playback it isn't you or the amp.

thanks for all the replies..
it's being mic'ed witha 57, I'm going to try using a condensor too, I've tried it with much lower gain, and different guitars.. a big help was running it as a halfstack, more power to the speakers, thanks for all the suggestions.
I'll try having them pad the mic better also..
I know my tubes are good..
tommorow I'm gonna crank the f*cker up, I think that will sound better..
speakers are G12T-75's, which I've been very happy with thus far.
my settings are something like
Presence: 6-7
Bass: 4-5
Mids: 6-7
Highs: 4-6
Master: varies
Pre-amp: 10
sorry if it's jumbled I kinda answered questions as I read them.

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Rig