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  #1  
Old 10.04.05, 1:26 PM
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Question James Hetfield "And Justice for All..." rig?

I tried searching for this, nada.

Anybody have an idea what either Hetfield or Hammit were using for this era?

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Amp: Sunn Beta Lead, Mesa Boogie Mark IV

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  #2  
Old 10.04.05, 2:48 PM
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James

Mesa Boogie Mark IIC+
Marshall JMP/JCM Heads
Roland JC120 Combo
Marshall 4x12
Mesa Boogie 4x12
Mesa Boogie Heads slaved into Marshal amps

Kirk

Mesa Boogie Mark IIC+
Mesa Boogie Stratagy 400 power amp
ADA MP1 preamp -Used along with his tube screamer for leads. Used without TS for clean
Aphex Parametric EQ
Ibanez Tube Screamer-Solo boost
Mesa Boogie Heads slaved into Marshalls


The main rhythm tracks were generally done with the MKIIC+, then they'd layer with the other amps.
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  #3  
Old 10.04.05, 3:06 PM
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Thanks!
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  #4  
Old 12.04.05, 5:57 AM
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James used a similar rig to Master of Puppets.

He was sick of the typical Marshall sound, so he pushed the **** out of his Marshall JMP 2203 by slaving the preamp of a Mesa/Boogie MarkIIC+ into its poweramp.

James may have also used a Marshall JCM800 head (poweramp) for the layering tracks.

An Aphex Parametric EQ (or 3) were used to heavily cut out the midrange. But I think there is a tiny bit of fine midrange to get that distinctive tone you hear.

The amp output was put through 2 Marshall 4x12 cabs (fitted with Celestion Vintage 30w speakers), set side-by-side and closely miked.

Then the whole recording track was layered 3 times or so to get the extra thickness, in effect compensating for the lack of midrange. I think alot of mixing desk equalizing was done too.
Although it sounds awesome and seething, it can get a little mushy and gutless.

Unlike the Master of Puppets album, James used (and forever uses) his white ESP Explorer with EMG-81 pickups. His other ESP Explorers have an EMG-60 in the neck, but that one has two 81s.



Later on, James ditched using Marshall amps live, and used a Mesa/Boogie poweramp instead, the Strategy 400. In the 90s and now James uses the TriAxis preamp rather than the IIC+ head's preamp.

James got his clean tone by using a Roland Jazz Chorus-120 combo. He's been using that amp on every album and used the head version live. But since 2003 and even at the recent Rolling Stones rig, he uses the combo, you can see it in the pics.


So, the equation is

James's crunch tone = ESP Explorer w/EMG 81 pickups + Mesa/Boogie MarkIIc+ head (preamp) + Aphex Parametric EQs + Marshall JMP 2203 head (poweramp) + Marshall 4x12 cabs w/Celestion Vintage 30w speakers.

AND ALOT OF LAYERING!
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Old 12.05.05, 3:57 PM
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Hetfield has said in several interviews that he stopped using the Marshall's for Boogies around the Master of Puppets era...so i am going to dispute what you are saying about him using them in the studio.

And, he only aquired the ESP explorers in Nov 1988, so he couldnt have used them for the recording....he used the Gibson's with EMG's.
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  #6  
Old 12.05.05, 4:19 PM
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I watched the making of the black album dvd last night at my Bassist's place. Gotta say...hell of a lot of Marshall's lying around so guess they were using them but maybe with Mesa's too although I saw none.

So funny to watch Kirk and Bob Rock argueing about the solo on Wherever I may roam. Bob's like "man it's gotta start from down low and work up towards a screaming ending, y'know?" to which Kirk replies "na, what I'm thinkin is to start high then bring it right down and build up toward the end again" and Bob doesn't think it'll work so starts ripping it outta Kirk to which a prompt "f**k you man!" is issued after which he belts out the solo that was the final take on the album. Take a listen/watch if you get the chance and need a laugh!
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Old 12.05.05, 5:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Jazzmuffin
I watched the making of the black album dvd last night at my Bassist's place. Gotta say...hell of a lot of Marshall's lying around so guess they were using them but maybe with Mesa's too although I saw none.

So funny to watch Kirk and Bob Rock argueing about the solo on Wherever I may roam. Bob's like "man it's gotta start from down low and work up towards a screaming ending, y'know?" to which Kirk replies "na, what I'm thinkin is to start high then bring it right down and build up toward the end again" and Bob doesn't think it'll work so starts ripping it outta Kirk to which a prompt "f**k you man!" is issued after which he belts out the solo that was the final take on the album. Take a listen/watch if you get the chance and need a laugh!
i think they were talking about the unforgiven solo
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  #8  
Old 12.05.05, 6:14 PM
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That is a great movie, and yes, they were talking about the solo in The Unforgiven.

Check out this site: www.encycmet.com , it has an equiptment section that goes album by album listing the gear that each band member used. It also has a ton of other info on there. Hope that is useful to you.

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Old 12.06.05, 9:53 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by VittyD Check out this site: www.encycmet.com , it has an equiptment section that goes album by album listing the gear that each band member used. It also has a ton of other info on there. Hope that is useful to you.
[/B]

Sorry to say this, but Encycmet.com just rip stuff off from other sites. Half the time it's inaccurate. Nothing is their own (maybe some photos).

http://www.montyjay.com
has much more accurate information- the dude that runs that site has a friend who works at Randy Staub's studio (Randy was Bob Rock's recording engineer in the 1990s). So he's ALOT more reliable.

Plus, he has actual PHOTOS of the guitar rigs! That prove that James Hetfield and Kirk Hammett were still using Marshalls in 1986.

But they used them differently, they slaved the preamp of the Mesa/Boogie into the Marshall heads.
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Old 12.06.05, 10:03 AM
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Quote:
Plus, he has actual PHOTOS of the guitar rigs! That prove that James Hetfield and Kirk Hammett were still using Marshalls in 1986.

But they used them differently, they slaved the preamp of the Mesa/Boogie into the Marshall heads. [/B]
yeah, but we were talking about the ...And Justice For All tone, not the 1986 M.O.P. tone.
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  #11  
Old 12.06.05, 10:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by the todd
Hetfield has said in several interviews that he stopped using the Marshall's for Boogies around the Master of Puppets era...so i am going to dispute what you are saying about him using them in the studio.

And, he only aquired the ESP explorers in Nov 1988, so he couldnt have used them for the recording....he used the Gibson's with EMG's.

I never said that James Hetfield used ESP guitars to record Master of Puppets.

James Hetfield used a GIBSON Explorer to do doubletracks for Master of Puppets. No EMGs, just stock pickups.

That Gibson was also the main guitar used to record the $5.98 EP: Garage Days Rerevisited in 1987. But I think EMGs were put in it by then.


James DEFINITELY used ESP Explorers w/EMGs to record ...And Justice For All in 1988, you can hear it in the tone, that "neng" sound. Just go visit http://www.metallica.com/its, in the Studio Diary, James Hetfield made a post about using the guitar that was on AJFA, but now a cream colour because of it's age.


About the Marshalls, yes, James stopped using them, in the normal way.
As I said, James slaved the Boogie amp into the Marshall head, for both Master of Puppets and ...And Justice For All.

He even used the same combination for Metallica (Black Album) in 1990, but also used a Mesa/Boogie Mark IV (as it is), an ADA MP-1 preamp, and also a Marshall amp on its own for extra midrange (modded by Jose Arrendondo, but not the same as the modded Marshall from 1983).


Randy Staub has said that Marshall contributed alot to the 'Black Album' tone.

All four amps were used to record the triple-guitar tracks for each song, three layers of massive sound!


But live, since 1988, James stopped using Marshalls altogether, in fact, forever. Since 1988 he's only used Boogie amps, recently he's also used a Wizard Modern Classic (1998), Diezel VH4 (2003-2004), and Krank Revolution 1 & Krankenstein (Rolling Stone gig), ALONGSIDE to his Boogie preamp and poweramp.



I'd love to see a GuitarGeek diagram of James' Black Album studio setup!
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  #12  
Old 12.06.05, 10:07 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by the todd
yeah, but we were talking about the ...And Justice For All tone, not the 1986 M.O.P. tone.

I know. But the same amps were used for both albums.

It's the guitars, pickups, and a ****load of equalizing and layering that makes the tones so different.
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  #13  
Old 12.06.05, 10:19 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Jazzmuffin
[B]I watched the making of the black album dvd last night at my Bassist's place. Gotta say...hell of a lot of Marshall's lying around so guess they were using them but maybe with Mesa's too although I saw none.

James, Kirk, and Jason used two different rigs in the studio, one for RECORDING, and one for PLAYING ALONG TO LARS when he was recording drums.


The recording amps were in the control room, you can see some shots of them racks near the mixing desk.

Kirk's rack had a purple Marshall head sitting on top of it.

James' rig had his Mesa/Boogie Mark IIC+ sitting on top of it.


In one of the scenes, there's a huge row of Marshall amps and cabs along the wall of the studio recording space. I think they were used by Kirk. He had two Marshall Plexi heads (one purple, one black) to amplify the treble frequencies of his tone. I think that was output to the big row of Marshall heads and cabs.

The low end and midrange were amplified by a Bradshaw preamp and VHT poweramp, possibly out of the Marshall cabs.

In this part of the film, is where Bob Rock says "Maybe use that, with a Marshall." And Kirk says "And turn everything up, and play that way. It's gonna RIP!"

(then follows the numerous takes of recording the The Struggle Within solo.)



James used a Marshall head an cab, but separate to Kirk's cabs. He used it to add more tone and midrange to his guitar sound in overdubs. I think the only time you see it is when James is talking about his setup. You can see three Marshall cabs and a Mesa cab (one for each amp- Marshall, Boogie IIC+, ADA preamp, MarkIV) in a row, in a corner of the studio. 8 microphones are put up close to them, and high above an ambient mic. James says he put up foam walls and U-Haul blankets around it (you can see this being done), to get the tightness, helps to accentuate those critical frequencies out of the amp, essential for the tone.
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  #14  
Old 12.07.05, 2:36 AM
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Critical frequencies to James' AJFA tone

Hi all, this arvo I was playing around with the EQ in Winamp, just playing a guitar pickup sample, and I discovered some critical freqencies....


The 600Hz is that lower-mid "caustic" sound.
The 1kHz is that crappy midrange sound.
The 3kHz is that upper-mid "British" Marshally sound.


As I said earlier, it's not how much midrange is scooped out of James' tone that's important, but what midrange frequencies ARE LEFT in James' AJFA tone, that makes it sound the way it does.

This will work best with a graphic EQ, even though James Hetfield used a bank of 3 or 4 Aphex Parametric EQs...


First, boost the bass frequencies and treble frequencies on your graphic EQ, whether it's a pedal or unit- this works best if you put it in your effects loop.


Then, push right down the 600Hz slider, 1kHz slider, and 3kHz slider, right down to the bottom of the scale.

Leave the 3kHz where it is, there should be no 3kHz in the tone as possible.

Then, ever so slightly, push up the 600Hz and 1kHz sliders, just a millimetre or two from the bottom. They have to be roughly at the same level.


This should greatly help to get that elusive James Hetfield seething dry crunch distortion on ...And Justice For All.


Note: this won't work if you just push up on of the midrange sliders, say only the 1kHz or only the 600Hz. It makes it very different.
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  #15  
Old 12.07.05, 4:31 AM
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Re: Critical frequencies to James' AJFA tone

Quote:
Originally posted by petejt

This will work best with a graphic EQ, even though James Hetfield used a bank of 3 or 4 Aphex Parametric EQs...
No. On a good parametric EQ you can set the middle frequency of the band you're going to boost or cut. That's why it's better than a graphic eq, which has usually fixed middle frequencies. So if you want to boost 2 KhZ by 2 dB, it doesn't work on your Winamp graphic EQ.

A good way to use a parametric eq is to boost a narrow band and sweep the frequencies around to find a spot that sounds really annoying, and cut from there. That means you can turn the channel louder, boosting all the good frequencies.
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