I read the ambient equipment guide, I've heard the sound clips, I own a few ambient albums... But how do I start playing like that? As someone who has been taught mostly in a very straighforward manner, I'm finding it instinctively hard to get lost in space. Where do I start? What keys do yall like to use? What's your prefered technique for building texture and hitting the sonic climax of a song? Spill it, yo.

I don't know.

I have to say a protion of it is natural. Like Clayton38 and myself. We both come from a traditional background to a degree, and just kinda found we prefer to play like that. It isn;t what we choose to write(I wanted to write killer pop songss for years with weird ass sounds and all that), it is just what we found was natural.

Beyond that bull****, if you don't have a looper get one, and hook up a bunch of pedals and see what happens, or even a cheap multieffects or 2 and a looper, and just jam it out. find a progression you like, and strip it down, start by think of the notes as a seperate loop and build from there.

Another early technique and the first thing I did when I got a decent looper was recrod 2 bars of C-am and just start building harmonies on it, then figuring how to effect each of the harmonies and just keep it going. Then solo over it, or make noise over it. **** up the loop, have it spiral into the ether. It is a great first improv when it comes to this type of playing.

remember, gain can be your enemy, that HUGE distroted part you added to the loop might sound really lame in 5 minutes, so really think about when you use a gain sound. Delays are good because the loop kinda buffers then, they are more a ambient sheen as the exact repeats are cut off and they start to bounce all over. All effect use must be thought out to some degree. Really, it becomes second nature after a while, like keys to solo in do, you get a mood going and you know exactly what to do with it.

Also, learning sounds is important. You should have a good idea of what everything you are use can do, should know all the settings to get it, and should know when to use it. Like, if a part needs a flanger, you know what flanger it will need and when to hit it. Like a key, it becomes natural after a while. if you have pedals that oscillate, you should learn to use that in you favour and explore the oscillation of the pedal. Also, ebows, slides, and hitting percussion track on your guitar and looping them and VALUABLE tools to use. Again, spend a few hours exploring these.

Know what sounds you want to use and how to get them. I prefer to use Synth pedals, delays, reverbs, filters, phasers, and pitch shifters. Most of my tracks have those. I run 2 gain sources that are really well tweaked, and go from there. Volume pedal as well. Figure a soundbase you like and that feel natural to you and work from it instead of endlessly exploring. Or do this until you are comfortable with everything you have, then explore. A looper, reverb and a couple delays are a great starting point, add a volume and some chops and you are there. After that, add, go nuts, use restraint in speed licks, think about traditional harmony, and mostly, have fun.

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What he said

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" When they fell out of the emptiness, they must have brought along... space's lonliness... space's lonliness"

everything fiveways said is... spot on.

the only thing i can add on is that if you want to make "ambient" music in the brian eno sort of way... start with stuff that is meant to be specific to one place.. and sit in that place a lot and just imagine the sounds and pay attention to how people/sounds flow in that place... now relate the sounds to that flow and then go home and try to match it... my strategy is to record, burn a disc... go sit and listen to it there.. when off, i've normally destroyed that CD and the recorded file on my computer.. and started anew. it's what has worked for me.

for general soundscape work... i dont' know... just toy. that's all there really is to say, i guess. don't force stuff... go with what comes most natural to you.

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Good read

This is exciting to me. I'm glad we're talking about playing music and not just buying gear. Having said that though, my rig looks like this:

guitar -> volume -> tuner -> wah -> overdrive -> phase -> amp

I use the delay and reverbs on my amp for now, but a DL-4 is soon to come. Part of my problem of not being able to get into an ambient playing style I think is definately the lack of a looper. Is the DL-4 one sufficient? I feel like I'll really miss my delay options when I'm looping with it; and I love the idea of so many delay options, three presets, AND a dedicated tap tempo switch. Do I need to look into a seperate looper? I like the droney stuff on Clayton 38s music, would something like a DOD DFX-94 be able to handle that?

I hear the name Brian Eno being thrown around a lot lately. Forgive me for being daft, what's up with that? Recomended listening, anyone?

I know what you mean aout how it just comes naturally. Someone once explained to me how music is like a language. As you're first learning, it takes conscious effort. But as it becomes part of your everyday life, it just flows. I guess I need to just immerse myself more. I get really self-conscious sometimes, and stuff like this helps me create mroe of a foundation to spring off of. Any more input would be amazing, thanks guys.

brian eno is... pretty much where the term "ambient" came from as far as i know... at least, in relation to music. when he defined it though, it was "music for the background." something non-intrusive and built to simply be atmosphere. a lot of people (guitarists especially) use the term for "misc atmospheric playing," but they're different things (although, they are sometimes related).

recommended listening? "music for airports" is the essential... also, his stuff with fripp is important to guitarists, IMO... and fripp's "the cathedral of tears" is also damn nice for those who are trying to introduce themselves to soundscape stuff, i guess.

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Good read

Any of this is great to start with,

Here Come the Warm Jets
with Robert Fripp, No *****footing
Taking Tiger Mountain
with Keving Ayers, John Cale, Nico, June 1, 1974
Another Green World
with Robert Fripp, Evening Star
Discreet Music
Before and After Science
Music for Films

After that.....

Ambient 1: Music for Airports
with David Byrne, My Life in the Bush of Ghosts
Ambient 4: On Land
Apollo: Atmospheres and Soundtracks
Thursday Afternoon
The Shustov Assembly

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A delay pedal is essential. If you have nothing else, you need a guitar, delay pedal, and amp. I have a DL4, I use the delay modes that have infinite repeat for looping more than the loop/sampler. If you could get both a DL4 and a DFX94, you'd be in good shape. Once you get into it, though, watch out; you'll be saying "if I only had one more second of delay..." or "if I just had another delay pedal..."

So much for talking about music instead of buying gear...heh.

I never really thought about it much before reading this thread, but "ambient" definitely is a misnomer for a lot of music classified that way. Most "ambient" music does exactly the opposite of what ambient music is supposed to (to me, at least). Stars of the Lid, Windy and Carl, Yume Bitsu, that stuff grabs my attention and holds it through the whole piece; my imagination starts working and I forget about everything else.

Hmm, Skip, you bring up a good point on what it means to be "ambient." I guess you oculd say I'm looking to play more epic, process based stuff. I don't know anything at all about this type of music, but I'm thinking along the Sigur Ros/Clayton 38/the Brian Eno clips I just listened to this afternoon. It's also looking like I'm going to start working with more bands, a singer/songwriter type and a full band. I'll be the second guitarist in either case, and I'd like to work some cool textures over mroe traditional acoustic and electric tones.

I spent the afternoon making all kinds of wonderful noises. Things just flowed more freely than they usually do, I was a happy kid. I did a lot of sound on sound type stuff with longer delay times, and letting one string feed back while I built patterns over it. My wah was awesome at dialing in precise tonal qualities of the feedback. And to think I wasn't sure I wanted to keep that... I tried to break out of some of my old, traditional scales, but I had trouble with that. I can't wait to get my DL-4 and start looping. Gotta figure out how much I spent on books this semester first. Thanks for all the info guys, keep the tips coming if you have them.

Unfortunately with this type of music gear is very important. Without the right equipment it can be very difficult to create something you could class as 'ambient'. When I decided to get into it all I had was a Multi Effects pedal and a couple of stompboxes, which wasn't really sufficient. I bought another Phaser, a DL4, an Ibanez DE7, an EQ pedal and more recently a Tremolo. I however have still kept the Multi Effects as it is undeniably useful. I can have a single patch that can have reverb set to max, then have delay on the same patch with I can use the expression pedal to dial in more or less repeats. I can then use the DL4 as a looper and the DE7 as my analog delay.

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Well, the stuff I use is very much like a DOD DFX 94. Basically a sample that is altered in pitch and speed to the point where it becomes a single movement... reverb is essential for this. Drones really come from anywhere... samples, loopers, or just in general keeping to familiar notes throughout a piece.

So yes, the DFX-94 has these abilities... and I know it is loves by many of the player on this board for being a simple to operate sample/hold pedal, for which there isnt much else out there except the Digitech PDS series, which could be extremely expensive or dirt cheap on any given day of the week.

I also agree with Skip Tracer in what he believes is ambient music. When I think Ambient, I think Eno, Stars of the Lid, Fripp's "Blessing of Tears", Clear Horizon(sometimes), and actually most of Mono's latest album. I know that there is a massive ambient market out there... (I found out the hard way listening through soundclick when I joined)... but I dont believe that a lot of people are grasping the ideals of ambient. One guy in particular sent me a ton of songs and waved the banner of ambient music... and what I heard was really tribal drum beats LOUD in the mix, followed by a sample here and a bit of synth here... and I just dont see this as ambient music. I know its very subjective... but I mean, when I have trouble thinking of anything but this loud rhythmic stuff booming out of my speakers... I just dont "feel" as if I am able to cencentrate on myself, which is a major part of why I listen to ambient music. Its very much about the music, but its also very much about the listener. I think you have to be able to imagine yourself within this music, or imagine the music within yourself... which is why when someone is so obviously pushing an idea to the point of being obnoxious, it seems like something is lost.

Regardless b.scott, I support your exploration. I think its great that more people on these boards seem to be exploring the boundaries of what they can do with a guitar, and I'm sure that all of us are willing to lend a hand to you if its ever needed.

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" When they fell out of the emptiness, they must have brought along... space's lonliness... space's lonliness"

Well John Cage had a piano and a mic... and a pretty crazy head on his shoulders

I understand what you are saying though... its a different type of ambient.

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" When they fell out of the emptiness, they must have brought along... space's lonliness... space's lonliness"

I think one thing that is important is to abandon the typical perspective of how the music is written. With atmospheric, soundscape stuff you have to think in terms of textures -- how notes effect each other, how your processing effects those notes and how you fit those textures into a musical idea. It's a different way of thinking than your typical rock or songwriting.

Basically, it's texture as mood, instead of musical structure as mood. Sometimes the texture calls for very minimal notes and large movements across the scale, or slower paced movement in the notes. Or even a study on one note that moves through different textures. That's why I love textured based soundscapes, there's so much more going on that's not readily apparent if you just listen to the musical structure.

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I've been listening to a lot of Ravi Shankar while I'm doing this, just to remind me that it's not all about the effects, your guitar still makes simple guitar sounding notes too.

Can the DD-3's infinate repeat mode do the same type of thing as a DFX-94?

Great post, one of the best I've ever read on the forums. Some of the info you gave I can put to good use myself.

That's a thoughtful way of putting it. Look at it less as immersing yourself in it, just try and take a few of fiveways tips and start at your own pace, go from there. There's no hurry to get good either... it's all fun, right?

For ambient/textural guitar work my golden rule is: it's not whats there, it's what isn't. Try and maintain a sense of space. Don't be tempted to over-egg the pudding... I've had great loops turn into real jokes because I overdubbed too many ideas on top. You can make a simple loop or two run for many minutes just by the other ideas and tones you run through on your guitar/pedals.