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Old 10.17.09, 12:19 PM
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Auto Wah and compressors.

Hey, this is slightly unrelated to anything but it only just occurred to me. What do Funk guitarists do about pedal order?
The two major components of Funk guitar (as far as i can see) are auto wah and compression. I dont have an auto wah, but the ones i have tried are all envelope filters (i.e, the harder you pick, the more they wah).

however, a compressor evens out your output, so im assuming that it would kill an auto wah if you put it in front of one (i.e, the compression would mean the envelope filter didnt react to your playing)

so do funk guitarists put auto wah before compression, and therefore, before distortion as well?

i was just wondering.

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Old 10.17.09, 12:32 PM
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Wah effects always go first in the chain.
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Old 10.17.09, 1:57 PM
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running compressor--->auto wah gives it more of a triggered filter effect. whereas auto wah ---> compressor is more expressive with the cutoff frequency. also try putting the compressor into the sidechain on an auto wah like the lovetone meatball for a better triggered filter effect.
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Old 10.17.09, 1:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Savant View Post
Wah effects always go first in the chain.
No they don't: Pedal order is entirely subjective, what a ridiculous statement.


Plenty of great players put compression before all else, (auto)wah included: Whether they use both simultaneously is a different matter. However, compression tends to sound much better before standard (pedal) wah, I find a compressor after a wah can result in the peak frequency from the wah being boosted significantly, occasionally causing nasty spikes at certain frequencies.
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Old 10.17.09, 5:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Leeroyfunk View Post
No they don't: Pedal order is entirely subjective, what a ridiculous statement.


Plenty of great players put compression before all else, (auto)wah included: Whether they use both simultaneously is a different matter. However, compression tends to sound much better before standard (pedal) wah, I find a compressor after a wah can result in the peak frequency from the wah being boosted significantly, occasionally causing nasty spikes at certain frequencies.

From BossUS.com:

Quote:
The PW-10 wah, like most wahs, works best if it gets an uneffected signal directly from the guitar. A wah is simply an active tone control with a pedal instead of a knob. It wants to work on the basic tone of your guitar. If it was after the compressor, the boosted signal from the compressor could overdrive the input of the wah, making it sound unpleasantly distorted. And since a compressor is an amp, and a wah boosts certain frequencies, the noise level could get considerably higher before it even gets to the overdrive, where noise can really get to be an issue.
Placing a wah later in the effects chain is ok, but they tend to have a lot of trouble when you go that route. Most people here will probably agree that a wah is best in front of other effects.
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Old 10.17.09, 5:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Savant View Post
From BossUS.com:



Placing a wah later in the effects chain is ok, but they tend to have a lot of trouble when you go that route. Most people here will probably agree that a wah is best in front of other effects.
no not really.
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Old 10.17.09, 6:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Savant View Post
Wah effects always go first in the chain.
this sounds like a fun idea...

(only kidding)

cheers for the info guys, sounds like my (probably brief) interest in funk guitar tones has been sorted out
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Old 10.17.09, 9:35 PM
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OK so you don't agree with Savant. Fine. I don't either. Someone else has posted suggesting a reason why they alter a pedal placement. That is what this forum is about. Anyone who is spouting 'holy writ' isn't in the right place. We want the facts and we want reasons. Posting opinions from a manufacturer's web site is a useful aid to the debate but should never be considered as a way to 'carry the day'.

That said, the person who placed the 'dou' tag in I presume a ruse aimed to circumvent the previous approbation for placing a 'douche' tag, needs to either:

Stop doing so of their own volition.

Stop posting here and go where they are less likely to be annoyed by other people's opinions.

Be subject to sanctions for antisocial acts on a friendly forum.

To my content.

As the original poster said the auto wah works as designed in a postion where the maximum use can be made of picking dynamics in triggering the effect. Using it to make other sounds by exploiting this design in other parts of the signal chain is what being creative is all about. Placing one in the wet part of a delay chain with a harsh noise gate setting and playing a really stacato part gives a particularily eerie effect and is only one of the many ways an effect can be used in a manner not originally intended.
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Old 10.17.09, 10:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Savant View Post
Placing a wah later in the effects chain is ok, but they tend to have a lot of trouble when you go that route. Most people here will probably agree that a wah is best in front of other effects.
Most people here will probably tell you to follow your ears. What works best is what sounds best in your rig.

I prefer my wah late in my chain. Definitely after fuzzes. Sometimes even after overdrives. Occasionally I even run it in the F/X loop. It's a far less pronounced effect in these spots. More a subtle filter sweep than quack-and-smack in the face. Which, obviously, would be completely not what you want for funk...so don't put your wah where I put my wah is maybe what I'm trying to say here?
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Old 10.18.09, 2:16 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NoFroBro View Post
the person who placed the 'dou' tag in I presume a ruse aimed to circumvent the previous approbation for placing a 'douche' tag, needs to either:

Stop doing so of their own volition.

Stop posting here and go where they are less likely to be annoyed by other people's opinions.

Be subject to sanctions for antisocial acts on a friendly forum.
Agreed. If the moderators can't identify and ban the idiot(s) attaching these tags, couldn't they just disable tags for this forum?
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Old 10.18.09, 4:12 AM
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what is a tag?

also, im pretty sure i read that the Slash wah has the ability to put distortion either before or after wah, tho i have never really looked in to it.

so to sum up.

Place auto wah where you like. But it will react ore like an auto wah is suppost to react pre compressor.
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Old 10.18.09, 4:41 AM
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Ha, being called a douche doesn't really bother me. When you are autistic, and you can talk, be prepared to get called a douche a lot. I know that I have no way of knowing if my comments will come across as mean, or inflammatory, or... sexy? My brain is wired for music, and that's who I am, and I had to give up the social graces to get that, but I wouldn't trade it for anything.

Back to the topic at hand (which seems to be a regular phrase around here!) I never said you can't place wah later in the chain, but the general rule is to put it in front of the chain. When you place it later on, it gains more effect. Some people like it post fuzz (which is in effect compression).

What I really was going at, is when you look at multi-FX processors, they have a signal chain. These processors always have wah first. Some processors now allow you to modify the effects order.

The real problem with placing the wah later has been discussed in the past though. Wah pedals seem to get overloaded easily. I really have no experience in this area, so someone else can explain it.
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Old 10.18.09, 4:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Savant View Post
I never said you can't place wah later in the chain, but the general rule is to put it in front of the chain.
No, you actually said -

Quote:
Originally Posted by Savant View Post
Wah effects always go first in the chain.
"always go first" meaning either: they should always go first (not true) or everyone always puts them first (also not true).

Quote:
Originally Posted by Savant View Post
What I really was going at, is when you look at multi-FX processors, they have a signal chain. These processors always have wah first. Some processors now allow you to modify the effects order.
Again, you can't go off this - The Boss ME-50 (and probably most Boss MFX units) may put compression after wah, but many multifx don't.
ALSO the ME-50 default settings put modulation like tremelo and uni-vibe before distortion/OD which just sounds wrong to my ears - and I think to many other players - Luckily, as you say, Boss allow you to alter the fx order, so if you don't like it, you can change it...
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Old 10.18.09, 11:52 AM
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As a friendly chime-in, I also put my wah towards the end of my chain. I like to think about it as such: would I rather wah my distorted tone, or would I rather distort my wah-ed tone? I find that the wah can kinda get buried underneath gain, especially when i put on my big muff, and I like to get that big wah-ed sound. It certainly works for funky applications when used like that, but I'm not a funk purist or anything so if the signal isn't 'perfect' or whatever, I tend not to mind. Using it after the fuzz, I just get this big ass heavy wah sound which is nice. I like to keep it before any modulation, however.

Toma, from what i've heard, you're gonna want at least the compression at the start of your chain, but I think the point to glean from this debate/partial threadjack is that it's all subjective. Do what you like, and fuck what everyone else thinks. even me!

and seriously, can't we all just get along and be friends? where would we be as a society if we did not respect and value differing opinions? i'll tell you where we'd be: way further up shit's creek than we are now. Stagnation based on agreement is the worst thing that can happen to us as a vibrant and intelligent species. ok, mini rant is over. back to work...
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