I would not call the Muff an overdrive pedal, but OK

I would put it under the "2" section; feedback loop. It is basically a transistor with 2 diodes in some sort of feedback loop.

The muff consists of 4 parts:
- The input is a buffer kind of setting
- that is followed by 2 gain stages consisting of a transistor + feedback stage
- followed by a tone section (of a combined high and low pass filter
- followed by a buffer / amplifying section

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I failed to notice 'basic' overdrive circuits, I saw circuits and was like hey I'm look for some Big Muff info!

Ah, that's OK! A Muff can also be like an Overdrive

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Hey Berarduur, so the EQ of a pedal is caused mostly by other means right? so lets say we have an overdrive pedal (any type of clipping) and we change the clipping method leaving everything else intact, what sound difference could we get?

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Depends on the clipping method; LED's for example emphasize the bas and treble and cut mids slight

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has anyone answered the question regarding where the BD2 belongs on the list? i skimmed through but didnt notice anything.

though, i would say it belongs in section 2. BD-2 is alot like the Bad Monkey and Tubescreamer, without the sym. clipping and mids coloration

[ 2. Clipping diodes in a feedback loop:
Boss: OD-1, OD-2, SD-1, ((BD-2))
Digitech: Bad Monkey
Fulltone: Fulldrive II,
Ibanez: Tubescreamer
Maxon: OD9
Voodo Labs: Sparkle Drive ]

Nope!

BD-2 is a clipper to ground. It does not use opamps but "makes" it own opamp by using the parts of an opamp in real time. 4 silicon diodes to ground makes the clipping

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BD2, Rat and Double drive added to lists

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i'd like to know the difference between different LED colors when they are used in clipping.

i heard somewhere that red LEDs are ideal for clipping.
is there an audible difference in the different colors?
has anyone tried swapping/comparing?

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There is a small difference in LED color clipping. The biggest points here are diode material and knee voltage. The diode material is different from for example LED to silicon diode. Between LED's the material is quite the same and does color the sound a bit, only a slight bit (not noticeable for the common man)

Th knee voltage is the forward voltage of a diode. A silicon diode for example has one of around 0.6, 0.7V; a LED is higher and has one of around 1V. A germanium diode has this one at 0.35V. These differences determine the amount and tone of clipping and can be found in dataseets

Red LEDs are usually used as they are the cheapest (and oldest) LED's

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newbie poster...

some people were interested in OD circuit design and character/tone

here's an overview of some classic circuits
http://users.sa.chariot.net.au/~gmarts/ampovdrv.htm


if you're into putting an OD ouput on an oscilloscope (some excellent free PC and Mac software scopes out there) you'll notice some characterstics after scoping a variety of overdrive and dist. pedals.

pick the "A" string clean and then through the OD and compare the waveforms.

milder overdrives seem to have rounder waveforms.

ODs with "bite" (EG the underappreciated Boss OD2 in turbo mode. inexpensive used) show a "sloped" waveform with round edges.

distortion has triangular shapes and pointed edges (EG Boss DS-1. an inexpensive classic. hard pointed slope as opposed to a rounded slop on the OD-2.


also note left-right symmetry of the wave.

i don't think top and bottom waveform symmetry or asymetry was mentioned in this thread.

top/bottom symmetry makes a difference that is impossible to ignore.



a basic exercise is to make this chain

EQ---OD---EQ

personally i prefer para-EQ. at least for the front.

notice you can make a basic overdrive pedal sound like allot more than a basic overdrive.

play with high freuqency large boost up front and adjust the second EQ to make it sound good to your ear.

same with other frequency ranges.


point is to note pre and post EQ in OD circuits when chasing the right character or tone. makes a huge difference.

i think all OD pedals have (at least minimally) EQ pre and EQ post gain so the effect of boosting or cutting a frequency range is worth playing aroudn with.


another category for OD type might be worth adding. cascading designs.

peter cornish uses cascading gain stages in at least the NG (death) Fuzz.

definitely in his soft-sustain and G/P2 overdrives.

i think Boss has a cascading gain OD now.

Jacques overtube is a cascading tube screamer (lots of value for the money there. the jacques pedals are not cheap and nasty as per some rumours.

solid stuff. (the battery compartments i don't like but all pedals can't be Boss or Yamaha-100 series)

musician's friend devalued them half a year ago or so. i picked up some great deals. jacques makes a great fuzz too (mercer box II)

i think subdecay has a cascading pedal built with FET amplification stages.


anyway ...

cascading designs have recognizable character and are now affordable.


the yamaha CMOS overdrive surprised the hell out of me. especially with an OD slamming the signal first.

really great heavily overdriven sounds without harshness. sounds great using my tube amp or my JC120.

don't know how the CMOS tech works. now i'm dying to know!

the yamaha CMOS OD was a bargain and is now one of my "never sell it" pedals.

cheers

You're pretty well learned for a n0ob. hehe. Welcome!

well noob poster here.

i'm learning from posts here. just wanted to share things i think are worth thinking about.

i try and support forums that encourage the "how and why" so tone isn't a paint by numbers scenario

cheers

I can safely say that almost all OD / dist / fuzz pedals are cascading........

A CMOS OD works bij inverting the signal.

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i think what i meant by "cascading" is larger number of multiple gain stages than found in typical stomps or classic circuits. this (to be better defined) approach is used to yield an identifiable OD character.

perhaps one necessary aspect might be that full gain isn't used in intermediary gain stages?

a rough working definition to be sure.

berarduur's comment is right. multiple gain stages are pretty much the rule.

so for a "cascading" category to be useful it would need to be characterized more clearly.

i need to set aside some time to do some CMOS homework and experimentation