For a while I've been using the compression portion of my VS Route 66 into my amps effects loop to control the overall volume of my rig. I set the sustain very low so it doesn't effect the dynamics, dime my amps volume to its sweet spot, and control the volume of everything with the compressors 'gain' knob. This has given me satisfying fat tones without having to blast the f out of my amp to get some nice tube sound. I don't know how the compressor does this, but when I'm using my Tonebone Hot British in front of my amp with the compressor on, the amount of saturation I get out of distorted tones is far beyond what I can get without it, so I'm content to keep using a compressor.

Problem is the sound signature of the Route 66 comp seems to add a bit of 'ice pick' harshness when I'm playing clean with my guitars volume all the way up. Backing off the volume a touch fixes this and gives me a clean jangly sound, but I'm thinking if the compressor is the base of my setup, I might as well upgrade to something more 'boutique' and high quality, like those Keeley pedals.

My question is; do all compressor pedals allow you to keep the sustain / compression effect very low while being able to lower/raise the overall volume of a rig like I'm doing with the Route 66, or do others have fixed levels? I've also noticed that when the gain knob / volume gets higher on the Route 66 compressor, the sound becomes dominated by mids and it kind of butchers the tone. Are there compressors that will not change the tone as the volume increases? What about clean boost pedals? Is that more suited to what I'm doing? I know I'm not using the compressor as it was intended, but I'm happy using it this way other than the bit of harshness that I think is just the quality of this pedal.

Thanks.

Hey there fellow Ottawaian!

Yea, for the most part, all compressors can do what you're asking but some do it better than others. That ice pick harshness you're hearing might be a result of some non-linearity in the compressor you're using or might just be because your signal is now buffered because you have an always-on pedal in the mix and you're not losing any of your guitar signal along the line.

The Ross design the Line6 pedal uses isn't very linear and and you'll find the boost problems persist with any design that also uses the Ross circuit as its basis.

I'll recommend an Ottawa company here as a good place to start your search: The Empress Compressor -- their compressor is based on very famous rack-based compression unit that's known for a non-linear, but sweet non-linear, response curve.

The advantage to doing it the way you're doing it is, as you've seen, you can get some nice saturation with overdrives *before* the compressor, without having to fight volume issues. This is actually why Trey Anastasio from Phish runs his signal chain: TS-9 -> TS-9 -> Compressor -> Amp. The compressor keeps his volume between clean and any combination of the TS-9 pedals fairly consistent but lets him add in gain stages to the chain. This is something you won't be able to do with a boost pedal.

In the end, compressors are a lot like wine: what you like, someone else may not. So shop around. Use your ears. IIRC Lauzon's is carrying empress stuff so you can check there for a compressor and try it out on their floor before you buy.

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- IAN C. -
Rig: PRS | Schecter USA | Gibson | Axe-Fx II | empress effects
Beta tester: Fractal Audio | empress effects

I use a compressor at the front of my pedal chain. It's always on. I don't understand how putting a compressor in an effects loop could saturate an output stage earlier. I could see it making it meatier with the amp drivin hard, but not more saturated at a lower volume. In all my years I have never tried a compressor in a loop. Truthfully, most of my amps don't have loops. But i'm curious as to how this works at all?

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Stage Guitars: '80s Thin line LP Custom, '70 LP Standard, '83 Squier Black Headstock Strat w/ Dan Torres pickups, '59 Black Danelectro DC, sometimes others.

Pedal Board: Nady UHF 10 -> TU2 -> Rocktron Big Crush -> 70s MXR Phase 100 -> Cry Baby -> Bad Monkey -> Early '80s Rat -> Early '80s Ibanez CS 9 -> Ibanez DE 7 -> Behringer Dr 100 Stereo Reverb

Stage amps: '63 Blonde Tremolux w/ two original 2X10 cabinets with a '60 Ampeg Rocket/18 watt VTB Marshall clone/ Epi VJ into a Mashall 1965A

So the tone would be consistent on the Empress? I don't mind some coloration as long as the tone stays the same as I adjust the level. I'm willing to spend around $200-$250 since it's an important piece of my rig, so the Empress is on the list now, thanks. I've also been looking at the Keeley's & the Electro-Harmonix 'Classics Black Finger'.

I don't have a technical explanation unfortunately, all I know is I can basically turn my distortion pedal into a fuzz pedal with the compressor in the loop. Gobs of gain. I do keep my amps volume around 2 o clock at all times. If I decrease it, the sweet tone goes away, but the saturation I get is consistent at whatever volume on the compressor.

It's similar to running drives -> compressor. You get to turn your drive levels up, but the compressor keeps the output level in check, squashing it all down. In the loop it's doing the same thing, but operating on your preamp output before it gets to the power amp. And if you turn on drives before your preamp, it's operating on anything fed in to it.

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- IAN C. -
Rig: PRS | Schecter USA | Gibson | Axe-Fx II | empress effects
Beta tester: Fractal Audio | empress effects

It's a good compressor. I'm very biased. Add the Joe Meek to your list if that's your budget. That's a really nice optical compressor in a stomp box format. The Keeley is a, IIRC, a Ross on one side and an orange squeezer on the other (assuming you mean his double compressor pedal) -- so it'll sound similar to what you've got now.

__________________
- IAN C. -
Rig: PRS | Schecter USA | Gibson | Axe-Fx II | empress effects
Beta tester: Fractal Audio | empress effects

So basically you're getting your distortion in the preamp and not saturating the output and PI. Yech! I have never cared for fizzy preamp distortion. On a two channel amp you can series one channel to overdrive the other and use the master volume. It was a very common mod to Marshalls in the late 70s. It sounds good if you only use a little bit of preamp distortion (it also gives more gain) and also saturate the PI and outputs tubes.

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Stage Guitars: '80s Thin line LP Custom, '70 LP Standard, '83 Squier Black Headstock Strat w/ Dan Torres pickups, '59 Black Danelectro DC, sometimes others.

Pedal Board: Nady UHF 10 -> TU2 -> Rocktron Big Crush -> 70s MXR Phase 100 -> Cry Baby -> Bad Monkey -> Early '80s Rat -> Early '80s Ibanez CS 9 -> Ibanez DE 7 -> Behringer Dr 100 Stereo Reverb

Stage amps: '63 Blonde Tremolux w/ two original 2X10 cabinets with a '60 Ampeg Rocket/18 watt VTB Marshall clone/ Epi VJ into a Mashall 1965A

This is why you're olddawg, you stick to your ways..... I did this every now and again when I needed consistent levels from gig to gig, I did it with a rackmount DBX compressor though..... An old Marshall doesn't get chug chug unless boosted, vintage Marshalls need to be stupid loud to sound good.... I should probably go back to one with all the noise UK amps make.... My style of music that makes old guys ears bleed

For OP, all I used was the DBX, and it sounded dang good. We're talking studio effects at this point though.... Might be worth checking out, as DBX is apparently that classic compression tone..... Other then that, my knowledge is limited, sorry. besides I think it was the CS-2, and I did not use it in the loop, so I wouldn't know

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ESP Eclipse Limited (3/100) or Gibson Les Paul Standard (97) - Fulltone OCD - H.B.E. Detox EQ - Laney GH50L - 80's Ibanez AD-9 (in loop) - Randall XL 4x12
Tortex "The wedge" picks, Blue Steel strings, Line 6 Moble In, Charvel Model 6 modded to a Model 5FX.... Probly other stuff as well

What do you think badly clipping power tubes sound like?

I'll give you a hint: not that great. Think Neil Young 5e3 melting tone. It's not pleasant and it's far from how most people like their guitar overdrives to sound today.

The hallmark of the Marshall was, at the outset, that it took that Bandmaster design and beefed up the output section so it *wouldn't* clip to that mushy mess that Neil Young is the only person capable of controlling. (Okay, and maybe Hendrix but even he jumped ship for Marshall once he heard what less power amp distortion, more preamp distortion did...)

__________________
- IAN C. -
Rig: PRS | Schecter USA | Gibson | Axe-Fx II | empress effects
Beta tester: Fractal Audio | empress effects

Everyone is different, but I would say that most players prefer PI and power tube distortion to preamp distortion or a mix of a little preamp distortion and a supersaturated power amp. To me, preamp distortion sound thin and fizzy. It's a common perception. But whatever.

__________________
Stage Guitars: '80s Thin line LP Custom, '70 LP Standard, '83 Squier Black Headstock Strat w/ Dan Torres pickups, '59 Black Danelectro DC, sometimes others.

Pedal Board: Nady UHF 10 -> TU2 -> Rocktron Big Crush -> 70s MXR Phase 100 -> Cry Baby -> Bad Monkey -> Early '80s Rat -> Early '80s Ibanez CS 9 -> Ibanez DE 7 -> Behringer Dr 100 Stereo Reverb

Stage amps: '63 Blonde Tremolux w/ two original 2X10 cabinets with a '60 Ampeg Rocket/18 watt VTB Marshall clone/ Epi VJ into a Mashall 1965A