Do collecters suck, or are we to blame? - Page 3

co-intelpro · #31 03.10.05, 11:37 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by RSG
i agree 100%

its those "goofballs" that pay too much and effects the average, in statistics they are called outliers. Out liers skew the curve and bring up averages. This is what happens on eBay, the more outliers the more skewed the curve gets and hence a higher average price and thus bringing market value of a certain item up. In statistics you remove the outliers and the problem is solved, in real life these outliers do not get removed and the skewed price stands.

eBay itself is not to blame, its the bidders that provide the data points that make up the average. eBay provides the Areana. it allows for an increased sample size and thus an increased amount of outliers, which translates into increased prices.

EBAY IS A SELLERS MARKET. thats part of the reason there are "powersellers" etc. people make damn good money off ebay, the only way to make money is mark up...

OK, economics geeks, I get it. However, my question was not about the system. My question is about what is driving the system. Your comments about the market amount to an answer of: it is the way it is. My question is: What is causing the market to fluctuate?

Ebay has been around for a while now, so you can't really say the cause is Ebay, per se. However, what is to blame for the recent drastic increase of the cost of certain pedals, amps, guitars, etc.? I think its the change in attitudes towards certain equipment that was once thought of as less desirable, but has proven itself in one way or another (e.g. new popular bands using the equipment, collectors and players come to a concensus about certain pieces of equipment).

The sound of music has also changed over the past couple of years. This explains the fact that attitudes towards JMP Marshalls have changed. Many bands, nowadays, tend towards the Marshally sound and now the copy cats need that gear. Bands use these amps because they sound good.

This is my explanation, but I have to say that dumb asses that bid $250 for a Shredmaster really f-uck things up for someone who wants one, like me (I have one already, but I want a backup). This price is not good for people who own one either. Sure, you could sell and make loads of many, but if you don't want to sell it (because you like to use it), the thought that you might get $250 for a pedal you bought for $80 makes you think twice about using it ever again, because the better the condition, the more cash you could get for it, if you did sell it. This, of course, can be somewhat blamed on the collectors, because they tend to shelve things and gingerly play them. I think hype always spurs on the collector.

I just wish I didn't have to worry about the money side of things so much. When you have limited funds, the pressure to sell the stuff that has recently gone up in value is very high, and it sucks worse if you actually want to buy that pedal that is now $250, that was once $80. I think there is alot of hype out there, and it, in the end, tends to wind up the market alot. Misinformation runs rampant, and it is too damn easy to click a button and use your credit card to spend borrowed money. The mystery behind some of the hype behind some pedals really does add to the bidding feeding frenzy. I mean, with Ebay, its not like you actually get to try the stuff before you buy it. It is almost entirely based on hype.

Motorhead · #32 03.10.05, 12:26 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by co-intelpro
This is my explanation, but I have to say that dumb asses that bid $250 for a Shredmaster really f-uck things up for someone who wants one, like me (I have one already, but I want a backup).

If you're buying a backup then your essentially no better then a collector or adding to your own predicament.

co-intelpro · #33 03.10.05, 12:41 PM

Kinda, I guess, but I want to use it, not just put it behind glass. That is my complaint about collectors, the whole annoying mint, Ex cond. thing. Pedals aren't baseball cards. They are pieces of equipment that should be used...

Because of collectors, there is a certain pressure to leave your pedals in the box because the collector driven market demand rewards the whole mint in box stuff. Thus, if you have a new one, you are less likely to use it because of that. Also, when the 'mint' prices go up, so do the prices of less than mint ones. Therefore, the player who doesn't care about cosmetics, has to pay more in the end. Do you see what I mean?

Motorhead · #34 03.10.05, 12:48 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by co-intelpro
Kinda, I guess, but I want to use it, not just put it behind glass. That is my complaint, the whole annoying mint, Ex cond. thing. Pedals aren't baseball cards. They are pieces of equipment that should be used...There is certain pressure to leave your pedals in the box because the market demand rewards the whole mint in box stuff. Therefore, if you have a new one, you are less likely to use it because of that. Do you see what I mean?

I see what you mean but these collectors or rather the threat of collectors or Senior Executives buying gear at outrageous prices is causing a sort of moral suasion directly affecting the price of gear. All it takes is a rumor of a fox and all the chickens start to hide their eggs.

BenVanzetti · #35 03.10.05, 1:05 PM

This is an interesting topic. Try applying all of these concepts when looking to buy a house! Then you'll really see how "bling" and capitalism has f*cked the little guy!

RSG · #36 03.10.05, 1:07 PM

i'm in the same situation, limited funds and a taste for unique or rare pedals, lots of which are discontinued.

as to what is driving the increases. It is basic supply and demand, if more people want a certain pedal FOR WHAT EVER REASON then the value of it goes up. Even the guitar world is subject to trends. Good sounding pedals made popular by famous artists create demand. Sorry to sound like an "economics geek" but its economics that will answer your question.

I don't think its collectors that directly cause price increases, they do influence it indirectly by taking a certain number of playable pedals out of cirrculation which makes pedals rarer thus bringing up they're market value.

Paco · #37 03.10.05, 1:46 PM

it seems like ebay has made the cheap pedals cheaper and the more expensive pedals costlier.

anyone who wants a phaser sound can get a brand new cheapo CHANG ZANG ULTRA PHASER LIKE BOSS, IBANEZ for a $5.00 bid, even if the real price is $19.95

but theres phase 90s goin for $150 plus

so entry into the market is nice and easy, you can get a cheapo new guitar, a cheapo amp, and a few cheapo pedals all for $300... the you start playing and realize you can get slightly better tone with some legit pedals, all of a sudden youre paying $200 for some 'outrageous handmade boutique fuzz' thats the most wild extreme fuzz ever, or the smoothest most toneful tubescreamer clone...

mike from incubus uses some crazy pedal called a gonkulator and now all of a sudden theyre $200 on ebay... hell, second hand dod envelope filters are going for twice as much on ebay as brand new form musicians friend... wtf is that

i like stickin with my midrange gear... fender amp, boss, dod, danelectro pedals, black russian big muff... at a club i dont think the people in the audience, with the acoustics of the room and the tone consciousness of an average punk rock fan, will care if i'm using a block phase 90 instead of a script one, or a russian muff instead of a NYC

i say, leave the over priced pedals to the middle aged tone snobs or the rock superstars who can afford them

Dillholio · #38 03.10.05, 3:59 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Paco
mike from incubus uses some crazy pedal called a gonkulator and now all of a sudden theyre $200 on ebay... hell, second hand dod envelope filters are going for twice as much on ebay as brand new form musicians friend... wtf is that

Generally speaking in terms of dealer's collectables prices, you have to figure that they determined the price by taking the street value of any item & multiply it by 3. Actual cost of item + cost to re-stock that item + profit. So if you have a $50 item street cost, then you're looking at a collectable cost of $150.

Granted, there are other variables at play when it comes to guitar gear, but most people would pay street value of $50, unless other conditions exist -- such as hype. Once people start actually settling for the collector's price, & quit negotiaing in a median price, then the whole starts all over again, re-setting the "street" price.

I am a new user here at GG & it's funny looking at all of the user rigs that people play & seeing who uses what & why. It seems like most people play whatever they can afford based on what they can get their hands on & go from there.

I bet the only reason the dude from Incubus plays a Gonkulator is because it was the cheapest ring mod he could find & the tone grew on him. Nothing less. I bought mine for $40 on blowout & had no clue they were "desirable" until I started reading GG. Truth be told, if DOD would have called it a "Ring-Mod Distortion" and labeled the knob functions properly instead of "suck", "smear", "gunk"& "heave", they would have had more players playing the thing than scratching their heads trying to figure out what it did. They might have sold more units for a little longer, not making it so rare or it might still be around today. Why they just didn't put out a straight up ring mod pedal is beyond me, rather than trying to use it as a gimmick "for the kids" is beyond me.

Yet I digress....